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The Great MOTUC Debate, Part II
After the great response to my first article on the topic, I decided to round up a few more quotes from others in the collecting community.
First up is Emiliano Santalucia, artist for the 2002 MOTU comics and moderator at He-Man.org:
Poe: What’s your opinion of MOTUC, particularly versus MOTU 2002?
It really depends on what we’re talking about. How the series is managed and marketed, and how the products look, are different things. I will stick to [talking about] the products for now. Like many, I think [Masters of the Universe Classics] is probably what I expected [of the] relaunch back in 2002, and it’s incorporating many ideas and features that would have made the line probably more successful then. I’m talking about articulation, accessories, removable parts, and no pre-posed stances to name a few.
That doesn’t mean I don’t like the 2002 line, I love it!
That [was] MOTU reimagined, keeping the soul intact and I loved what the 4H did. But as products, the 2002 action figures were just not up to the day’s standards and trends. It’s interesting to note that the original Four Horsemen concepts had figures with more articulations. Unfortunately, it seems like there are still problems translating those fabulous sculpts to finished product.
As someone who worked with the 2002 designs as an artist, do you feel MOTUC is a step back?
Not at all, it’s quite the opposite for me. I mentioned the product improvement already and design-wise, [MOTUC is] sticking to what MOTU was. I don’t see nothing wrong with that. Instead of re-imagining the design of the characters, the Four Horsemen are just working on improving the original figures this time.
It’s just a different approach and, personally, I’m glad we had chances to see both ideas at work. As an artist, [both lines] are challenging and fun to draw. Lots of details don’t necessarily mean better design. Transformers Animated comes to mind.
Even the reusing parts can be seen as a necessary evil, but nowadays we’ve seen what miracles the 4H are able to make.
On the other hand, the communication with the fan base could be improved, as could lots of other choices not related to character design.
Do you think it’s a wise business decision on Mattel’s part?
I think it was their only choice. They burned bridges with the big chains when they managed the 2002 line so bad, so now they have to start from scratch. I admit going online only is a huge bet but, if the line works, Mattel will be able to go back to retailers with numbers to show the support exists.
Next up is yo go re, co-founder and chief reviewer of OAFE.net:
I was really excited when the MOTUC line was announced – I felt that the 2002 He-Man line was really hampered by the edicts of Mattel (which were all pretty typical of the company at the time), and I thought by going online-only and catering directly to fans, they might be able to get around those screwups. And yes, in some cases, they did, but overall, the line is a giant step… well, not backwards, really. It’s more of a lateral move.
One of the improvements? Articulation. Playing with King Grayskull is fun because you can actually PLAY with King Grayskull, and we know the other figures are going to have the same joints. The first thing I would have added to the 2002 line would have been elbows and knees, and these toys go way beyond that.
I was less enthused when the first figures were revealed. Rather than continuing with the improved designs the Four Horsemen had given us before, Mattel regressed to the chunky old style of the ’80s. Now, I could have lived with that: back when all toys were 5″, I didn’t have any problem mixing my Batman movie figures with my Batman the Animated Series toys – the stylistic differences don’t bug me as much as the next flaw with the “Classics” line: the size.
I don’t even mean the disappointing fact that the toys show a return to shared bodies, which means we’re again stuk with everyone being the same height. This is a broader issue.
ToyBiz took a big gamble when they decided to change the scale of their toys from 5″ to 6″, because the new toys wouldn’t match with the old ones, meaning you couldn’t integrate your collection. It paid off in the end, obviously, and everybody else moved to match them, creating a large “shared universe” of characters that can interact with one another, an MOTU was a part of it. These new ones, however? They’re too big. They have to stand on their own, and that’s not good.
Oil is getting rarer, and toys are getting more expensive. Is now really the time to try to make action figures BIGGER? Of course not. It’s a foolish move. If they were going to make the toys a new size, the smart move would have been to go the opposite direction: keep this same retro style, but do them in 3 3/4″ scale, which MOTU has never had before. REALLY be groundbreaking, and purposely set the new toys apart, instead of making them look like a careless mistake. That would also answer the worst problem with this line, the unreasonable price.
The fans defending Mattel say that they’re only charging what the market will bear. That’s a polite way of saying “they’re charging just below the amount that would make too many people complain about the price.” These toys have soft sculpts, and share body parts just like the original: there is no way that they should, in good conscience, cost $20, let alone cost $20 PLUS shipping PLUS some phantom tax. This is an in-house line, an original property with no additional licensing fees, and even the similarly exclusive DCU toys cost less. The math doesn’t work.
The unmatched beauty of the 2002 MOTU line was the way the Four Horsemen (as well as the cartoon and the comics) took the generic mix-n-match nature of the original Masters and gave them real personality, pushing the designs into new, yet familiar territory. Hell, I’m one of those who thinks there has yet to be a Marvel Legend with “too much” articulation, and yet I bought six series of $20 statues because it was the only way to get the Horsemen’s designs. This line throws all that work out the window and, though offering improved paint and articulation, embraces all the worst parts of the old toys.
In the ’80s, we didn’t know any better; now we do.
Next we have Michael Crawford, owner of the popular review website www.mwctoys.com:
Mattel is damned if you do, damned if you don’t in this situation, as is often the case when you try to make everyone happy. Companies rely heavily on past history to make decisions on future performance, and Mattel looked at their own 2002 release, and probably at what Hasbro did with G.I. Joe to try to make an informed decision.
The 2002 line was aimed at kids first, collectors second, as is the case with most mass market action figure lines these days. Kids do not respond, but collectors did. Unfortunately, we all know too well how difficult it is to keep a mass market line on the shelf with only collector support, and Mattel’s continuing problems with distribution sure didn’t help.
But MOTU was once king of the action figure aisle, and there’s still a solid collector base out there, so Mattel decided to try again. Of course, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, so something had to change. One thing that changed was distribution – they decided to go with a more specialty market, direct to collector route. I think they should have merely stopped there with the changes, and stuck with the updated designs rather than making the second change, and going with a more original ‘reproduction’ style.
Now, I don’t have a personal dog in this fight, because I’m not a big MOTU fan one way or the other. But no matter how vocal that segment of the collecting community might be that demands these look like the old figures, reproduction type toys don’t do very well, historically. If I can buy an original loose Beastman for $20, why buy a reproduction, even when there are some ‘improvements’? Even when the original is expensive and hard to get, like Captain Action or the 12″ Joes, the repros never really sell all that well, and certainly not at the kind of level a major company like Mattel would expect.
There was no chance they’d go with the 2002 styles though. You can bet, sure as shit, that there was a camp at Mattel that never understood updating the look in the first place, since a) they sold great 20 years ago, why not now? and b) we’ve even got the molds around (I’m assuming) so we can save money too! You can bet that when the 2002 line failed, those in this camp took great pride in perfecting their ‘I told you so’ dance, creating a political atmosphere that wasn’t conducive to continuing with the new designs.
So now the very vocal fans of the old school designs will be happy, but it’s important to remember that the biggest dog doesn’t necessarily have the loudest bark. Or at least not the most annoying. Just because they’ve been very vocal (and so much for internet postings and complaints not having an effect) doesn’t mean they will really be buying in the kind of quantity necessary to get this past the first couple figures.
And finally, Rustin Parr, also of OAFE:
What I find most interesting in all of the MotUC discussion is that it has evolved from an argument over design to debate over business.
A lot of my feelings/thoughts on the whole situation have already been laid out. I am very much not a fan of the aesthetic, though now that the first two figures are out I have warmed up to the idea of buying a He-Man based on the photos I’ve seen from those who have one. However, the hold-back still comes from cost – that figure simply isn’t $30 (or $28.55 to be specific) to me.
It’s really the shipping that just pushes it over the barrier of being unwarranted for me. For some fans for whom this is a dream-come-true of a line that price is acceptable or fair, which I can completely understand as there are many dream-figures I would gladly pay that or more for to add to my collection, but are there enough of that kind of buyer to keep this line alive?
Really, that doesn’t even matter to me – I would have jumped all over an ‘02 aesthetic line but it’s very clear that this isn’t going to be that, MotUC is quite literally not a line made for me which is where a lot of the perceived anger comes from. It really isn’t anger, its frustration. Frustration that, admittedly, I’m not ’special enough’ for this line to cater to my desire and far more importantly – frustration that the design choice of the line is geared towards what is undeniably a smaller percentage of the collecting base than what other options might allow for. I am frustrated by MotUC because most toy requests today are met by a unanimous “we wouldn’t be able to sell enough to make it worth our while” response so when Mattel, the largest (or second largest?) toy company in the world makes a toyline with multiple factors limiting its appeal it upsets me with the industry as a whole.
I am frustrated because yet again Mattel seems to be misinterpreting the market and designing a line for failure yet again. Only time will tell and while I can forsee us naysayers warming up to the look of the line after enough releases, I still can’t see many new people jumping on down the line with figures at $20-$30 dollars a piece, especially when that means there will be more released to purchase and fill in.
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This item has 53 comments (now closed):
Paul
12.05.2008 13.17
Nice responses!
Again my concern is about the price. I don’t think people are accounting for the fact that they expect to sell much fewer He-Man figures on-line as they would with wide distribution through retailers, so the price must be higher to pay for each figure… but still 20 bucks is really friggen expensive.
Baena
12.05.2008 13.25
I wish we would hear from TG what the numbers are like so far on the first two figs… It’d SOME of this debate and speculation to rest. *Note I said some, not all.
Thanks for the interesting read Poe!
monkey boy
12.05.2008 13.44
my chief complaint with the aesthetics of these figures is the intentionally 80s look to them. the point i keep coming back to is skeletor’s havoc staff. the ram head isn’t supposed to actually BE purple; it was only purple on the 80s toy because they molded accessories in one color. with the MOTUC line, they’re using different shades of purple in order to make an updated, more detailed, yet STILL all purple havoc staff. it boggles my mind that people are so nostalgic for their 80s toys that they crave monochrome accessories.
and the price… i’m glad i’m not interested in this line because if i were, there’s no way i could afford it. at nearly $30 a figure once the shipping and mystery tax are incorporated, you’re over the hundred dollar mark just after the first four figures. when you set those 4 figures up on your shelf, are they really going to seem worth it with their simplified paint apps, soft sculpts and shared parts?
Newt
12.05.2008 14.18
I think Michael was close, but fell off the mark when he said fans wouldn’t pay $20 for a repro. He’s right, they wouldn’t pay that for a REPRO, but this isn’t a repro. This isn’t exactly like the reproductions he was talking about.
As far as the 80’s look, I’ll say this til I’m blue in the face as Skeletor… The 2002 line did not energize enough of the classic MOTU fans and seeing as how at one point MOTU was the biggest toy franchise in the world, it’s quite believable to assume that there are just as many old fans of MOTU if not more than there are of GI Joe and Transformers.
However for MOTU to tap into those fans again, the product needs to be similar to the one we had as a kid. No matter how awesome the 2002 designs were, many looked like (and in some cases) were completely different characters.
I like others passed on the entire 2002 run because it just didn’t seem He-Man(y) enough for me. It was admirable, like many of the later Joe relaunches, but it didn’t make me want to buy them.
Most fans want IMPROVED versions of the crap we had as a kid. That’s just how we are. That’s why the Joe 25th stuff has been so good and that’s why Star Wars toys were such a hit and it’s why MOTUC has all the tools to be a big success.
I think you’re confusing things Poe by making the “contraversy” between 200X and the price point of MOTUC part of the same discussion. Frankly, those are two completely seperate issues.
Matthew K
12.05.2008 14.35
Neat. I assume at some point we get your take on all this, though, right?
Just asking because I’d like to read it.
I really don’t understand this statement;
“frustration that the design choice of the line is geared towards what is undeniably a smaller percentage of the collecting base than what other options might alot for.”
Are the old designs ‘clearly’ less popular? I don’t see a real consensus among the biggest He-Man fan base I know of – He-Man.org, nor do I see one at a more general toy site like fwoosh.
There does seem to be pretty broad based agreement about the price issue. I’m willing to pay, but I’m not excited about it. I wish they cost less. To me, these figures are worth the 20 bucks. It’s close to what I pay for a DCD figure and the MOTUC are far superior to that. At this point you pay close to 14 for DCUC.
The shipping is a bite, though. I normally order stuff online because the hunt is not very reliable, so I’m used to shipping costs. It sorta sticks in my craw more with MOTUC because I don’t have the option of not paying it. I tend to see it as more of the real cost of the figure than I do when ordering other things online. It’s weird because the shipping should always factor in to the real cost of a figure, but I kind of ignore it usually. It’s just a wierd trick of my brain. Denial or something.
I’m ordering multiples and splitting with local friends so that defrays the shipping cost somewhat.
Crawford’s comments about repro figures has me puzzled as well. I mean, these are in the style of the old stuff, but clearly not a repro figure. It’s like he hasn’t seen the comparison shot of the old and the new. Maybe the MOTUC captures the flavor of the old stuff so well that people are missing a lot of the really amazing improvements of sculpt, paint and proportion on these new figures.
There you go, Poe. You asked for it.
Poe
12.05.2008 14.43
Excellent, thank you
I’m still mulling over my own opinion. I do wish, as some have written, that we could have some further official insight from Mattel as to why the decisions were made to go with this style, price point, and so forth. But I’ll write up my own thoughts sometime soon.
Mark
12.05.2008 14.56
Totally agree Newt. This is the Skeletor toy I wanted as a child. All the fan boys can cry about how great the 2002 line was, but it boils down to the fact that the Classics are better. In my opinion the 2002 lines biggest strength was also it biggest weakness….the excellent sculpts! They were too well sculpted with not enough articulation to be great action figures. Being sculpted in poses really hindered them. 2002 Beastman is one of the finest action figures ever sculpted but it would have been amazing to have been able to straighten him up to his full height. Also the plastic their weapons were made from was too soft. As for changing height as Yo Go Re said a 3.3/4″ wouldn’t be bad (as much as I love G.I. Joe + 25th), but I like big chunky articulated action figures (recently got Marvel Legends Sasquatch and Thor and got into Sigma 6, thanks Monte) as I think the sculpts and accessories are better.
Michael Crawford
12.05.2008 15.20
I didn’t call these straight out repros – I said they were in a ‘reproduction’ style, and even mentioned that there were improvements. It does help that they aren’t identical (although there are some parts that sure are), and if Mattel can manage to differentiate them enough from the originals, it will certainly help.
MegaGearX
12.05.2008 16.23
Tell me about it.
I think the worst MOTUC figures are the ones that don’t try anything new. So far MOTUC He-Man, Beast Man and Mer-Man knock it out of the park as the best versions ever. Skeletor and Faker are the worst of the lot. Skeletor’s face…I wish it were scarier. And Faker…I wish they would have tried to make him a little more different than MOTUC He-Man in new colors. Maybe a newly sculpted He-Man head with a evil expression, with an alternate battle damaged Terminator head.
Poe
12.05.2008 16.24
Personally, I can’t wait for the Faker… but I was a sucker for the original Faker, too.
Newt
12.05.2008 16.35
Fair enough Michael. I’m just saying, I wouldn’t call these Reproductions at all. Mattel actually did reproductions.
The way I read it, it came across as why buy the new He-Man when you can buy the Vintage He-Man for as much.
Which I would agree with Repros of the original He-man, but these are hardly repros… So I don’t think the “Why buy new, when I can buy old” theory works.
Because comparing MOTUC to the original MOTU is like comparing Legos to Lincoln Logs.
PrfktTear
12.05.2008 17.24
I liked Emiliano’s responses the best, he made a lot of sense. I think Rustin was right on when he said that this has turned into a debate over business.
Some people seem to have villified Mattel, still frusterated with their mistakes from the past, and I guess are only assuming that they will fail once again.
Was it not the Four Horsemen who initially came up with the new and updated He-Man sculpt? In fact, if I remember correctly, it was only thrown out on display at the SDCC (correct me if I’m wrong) on a whim to guage fan reaction. If there wasn’t a strong reaction towards it, then I don’t think we’d have this today.
Finally, has anyone checked out the poll results over at He-Man.org? Out of 3,573 votes, 1,595 said “Yes I plan to buy them all! I’ll love any design (original MOTU, POP, NA and/or 2002)” Only 364 said they are only interested in 2002 designs, and 306 said they will collect the line once it includes some of the 2002 line. Finally, 190 said they have no interest.
-x
monkey boy
12.05.2008 17.59
online polls are typically a less than accurate gauge of what reality will tell. do you think those 1,595 voters on he-man.org can afford nearly $30 a figure, to be out and out completists? in these tough times i’d be surprised if that’s the case.
i remember around the time of the 2002 line’s demise, many people posited that perhaps all the interest in a MOTU revamp was in large part based on a very vocal but also somewhat small online fan community that ultimately could not support a line on its own. while i’ll be the first to say mattel handled the 2002 line distribution in the worst way humanly possible, i think the excessive price tag of these MOTUC figures may be mattel covering its ass so to speak, ensuring that even if sales are small, they’ll still turn something of a profit.
Mark
12.05.2008 19.23
$20 is a good price. I live in the UK and I am going to have to spend near £40 a figure with shipping on Ebay. Thankfully they are awesome so that is how I am going to justify purchasing them. Thankfully they are only one a month. I think Skeletor is great. I think too many people are bitching for the sake of it. CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Regardless of the designs we are getting MOTU toys, that look awesome and are articulated, why can’t we all just be happy. Any MOTU toys is better than none. Also I really need to say, as much as 4H sculpts on the stactions were amazing they were no substitute for a figure. These are the best versions ever of the characters.
MegaGearX
12.06.2008 5.51
Mark, can you honestly be so thrilled about MOTUC if you are a NA, POP or 200X fan? NA and POP won’t see a figure until 2010, if the line survives that long and even then, people still hold onto their childhood misgivings about those lines, even though the 4H are sure to give us awesome sculpts of those characters. 200X has the “Wait and see how the line does” disclaimer.
NA, POP and 200X fans either have to purchase figures that they don’t want so that their favorites get made down the road or withhold any support until those figures actually get made.
Not everyone collects every era of MOTUC. Just like Newt wouldn’t touch 200X MOTUC, there are people who won’t buy the vintage era, POP or NA out of general principle.
PrfktTear
12.06.2008 5.56
Good point. For instance, I was a loyal collector of the stactions, and other than the exclusives, I have them all. Now, lets say down the road they decide to release 200X sculpts in action figure form. Other than say one or two characters, barring me hitting the lottery, I don’t think I’d be inclined to spend $20 a pop on each figure AGAIN!
Mark
12.06.2008 7.31
@MegaGearX you have made a good point, but people bought the 200x line hoping their favourite characters would be made, then they hoped they would made in the Stactions series. For me personally some of my favourites were never made like Spikor and Extendar. I guess we can just hope the wait is worth it. I have no doubt that 4H will do awesome sculpts for the characters. You have to remember the 200x figure were designed differently as they were also for a TV show. Classics do not have to worry about this so they are looking like the original box art. This is to build a foundation for the fans….eventually thy will do more obscure characters….we have to be realistic as much as I would like it if they started the line with Darius, Flipshot, Hydron, Glimmer, Catra, Bow, Staghorn, Quake etc I dobt there would be much intrest. I imagine there would be posts like this wanting the main characters done. Again I think the sculpts for these characters would be excellent, I would love Slush-Head, Tuskador and Sagitar. Like any toy line the first series has to do good first, which sadly the 200x series did not.
Mark
12.06.2008 8.04
I just recieve my 200x Zodak today. I have to say cool as the sculpt is, and like the majority of the rest…the articulation is not great. Forget about the distribution etc…its no wonder kids did not get more into it, compared to other toy lines at the time like Marvel Legends, Power Rangers etc, they just cannot compete. Them also being sculpted in fixed psoes does not help. Some figures like Tri-Clops, Zodak, Two-Bad suffer the worst. This has made me want the Classics even more.
Mark
12.06.2008 8.10
Why are so many people still in love with the 200x line? Yeah they are cool but they may as well be statues. I am jumping at the chance to get a well articulated MOTU character that looks like the original toys and characters from the TV show I grew up with.
MegaGearX
12.06.2008 14.15
Mark, why do you think 200X fans want 200X to be incorporated into MOTUC, like NA and POP are?
MOTUC has the perfect builds and articulation. Imagine if they had the 200X costumes and design changes to go with it?
People forget the reasons why 200X failed, have been licked by Mattel. Otherwise MOTUC would be suffering from the exact same problems 200X and currently DCUC* suffers from now.
•Appealing to children – gone
•Terrible case ratios – gone
•Terrible distribution – gone*
•Scalpers – not a problem*
The ONLY reason people won’t buy them now is if they don’t like the figure, just like any other MOTUC character.
Mark
12.06.2008 16.15
MegaGearX I have been thinking long and hard and I do agree. It would be nice to see some design aspects from the 2002 series brought over. Especially for Teela, Evil Lynn and Man-At-Arms. But there is designs I from 2002 I did not like, such as He-Man’s face and Fisto’s giant hand. Maybe its just me but if they do a Classics Fisto I would like 2002 look, just not the huge hand.
Mark
12.06.2008 16.23
I wish to retract all my previous posts if it contridicts what I am saying now….but yes MegaGearX I have to admit if the hole 200x lne was redone with better articulation it would be amazing. But I still think they need to do some characters in their original outfits and styles. But some characters from 200x could be redone better like Fisto (hand only), Ratlor, He-Man’s hari style.
Newt
12.06.2008 18.13
Actually I’ll buy all the 200X characters, so long as they look good.
I’m a fan of MOTU, not any particular era. I already bought one 200X character in KG and am quite pleased with him.
Well other than he broke.
Mark
12.06.2008 18.16
Really, where? Are they fragile?
Newt
12.06.2008 18.22
His foot broke off. Pretty common problem with KG. No word on any He-Man’s breaking yet though. I guess we’ll see.
As for all the splitting hairs on eras and what design choices, etc, Mattel seems to think they’re on the right path and I tend to agree. The first few figures look awesome and appear to be getting better as we go along.
Hopefully decent sales will allow more new parts to be tooled as needed, although I’ve yet to see a figure who’s needed new parts and not gotten them. That may be why they’ve selected who’ve they seleced as the first eight or twelve figures though.
Banner
12.06.2008 18.37
In regards to the 2002 line, hasn’t Mattel said these were going to be included? Wasn’t King Greyskull already made as a sign of good faith?
She-Ra figures and New Adventures figures could come in 09, no one knows conclusively that they won’t. That’s purely speculation.
I understand if you’re a 2002 fan and you only want to buy 2002 figures you feel you’d be left out, but I’m not sure there is a good way to fix that. Mattel has already done a 2002 line and then allowed 4H to cater to them again with the stactions.
I don’t see why Mattel would just randomly insert a 2002 figure into the mix to appease the 2002 fans, when they’ve swore off all the other figures anyway. If that’s what we’re being led to believe. Sounds like the 2002 fans are the ones denying themselves MOTUC, not the other way around.
You like it, buy it, you don’t, then don’t.
I got some awesome ideas for new types of He-Man figures, but Mattel probably couldn’t budget all the new parts. And why should they take a chance buying any of those figures if I’ve told them that’s all I’m going to buy?
I like my collection of 2002 figures and I even have a few stactions. I would never buy remakes of them. Personally, I’m tired of the style.
I think if you make 2002 figures just to appease the 2002 fans, you’re going to have a very small percent of fans buying them. Vintage fans probably would skip out, and then only a portion of the 2002 fans would buy anyway cause a lot of us feel we already have these figures. Adding articulation is nice, but that ship has sailed in my opinion.
I’m excited because we have a new line. I like new lines, new ideas. Maybe I’ll be able to get a complete collection of MOTUC. That’s what I’m looking forward to, not filling in gaps from my 2002 collection.
Mark
12.06.2008 19.05
Thanks for the info Newt. I can’t take this, everyone makes good points….I like 200x as well…but I loved the originals….I would have loved them to have done better but it is time to move on. NO. I will stick with what I am saying, I love these Classics, these are the toys we all wish we had in the 80’s and I think doing the original designs is the best idea.
JimPansen
12.07.2008 5.32
Just one question: How well has sold King Grayskull?
The answer could be the answer to the success of MotU Classics…
Poe
12.07.2008 10.51
Well, King Grayskull sold out, but he was also produced in far smaller numbers than He-Man or Beast Man.
Mark
12.07.2008 11.16
I just bought He-Man and Beastman today.
PrfktTear
12.07.2008 14.51
When I ordered, I didn’t like that they didn’t tell us how it was going to ship until AFTER we recieved the confirmation.
I had no idea whether it would be UPS, the Post Office, or if Kevin Costner was going to deliver it riding a pony.
I usually choose the cheapest shipping option available, but still its nice to know when you’re ordering and to have the option for delivery.
Poe
12.07.2008 15.02
I’m not sure whether I’d rather have Kevin Costner drop it off or not receive it at all.
Mark
12.07.2008 16.07
I had to pay over £70 for these two figures with shipping.
Mark
12.07.2008 16.10
Meant to say to the UK. Northern Ireland to be exact. I am going to have to become a member of He-Man.org and see if any other UK fans want to do a joint order to save on postage for Skeletor and upcoming figures. Sadly I must pay the ebay prices.
MegaGearX
12.07.2008 23.46
@Banner
You could ask “Why should Mattel make POP or NA figures to appease those fans?” as well since they are a minority too.
The majority of MOTUC fans would buy every figure coming out to support the line. Even POP, NA or 200X figures, if Mattel made them. In comparison the people who are just buying say, all the New Adventures of He-Man toys and ignoring all the rest are a minority.
The highest era for that would be people who’d only buy the vintage era because POP “is for girls”, NA “He-Man in space sucks” or 200X “It just wasn’t the old He-Man”. For those first two eras, you’d be amazed of how those childhood prejudices still color people’s perceptions of those two eras, despite the 4H making some sick warrior women out of the POP crew to fit in MOTUC.
On the other hand, you have people who scoffed at MOTUC as soon as they heard the price and the re-use of parts. Those people would gladly pay $25+ for 200X detailed figures that are largely unique, but weren’t simple repaints, but were like MOTUC.
MegaGearX
12.07.2008 23.57
@ Banner
Mattel said the 200X line in MOTUC was going to be the characters who showed up only on the 200X cartoon. Those characters would be made from 80’s parts as if they had been part of the 80’s line.
Mattel isn’t doing the revamped characters that they actually made more unique. Instead of making the Skeletor mold into a crab man, the 4H actually made a straight up crab man. Potentially, we could be seeing the crab man be a modified Skeletor mold again.
Banner
12.08.2008 3.32
What exactly are we calling a POP figure? Hordak? If so that’s a pretty big leap saying vintage fans won’t collect them.
Vintage fans are the ones who grew up with She-Ra right alongside He-Man. I’d wager a guess they have a LOT more chance of buying of buying POP than the 2002 fans.
Not to pick either, but I’d say vintage fans are probably more likely to get NA stuff too.
There was what, a 20 year layoff in He-Man figures? I think POP and NA actually qualify AS vintage. I think a vintage fan is more likely to pick up a NA figure than a 2002 fan.
I’ve owned all types of He-Mans from different eras. I think POP figures are a must and I’d eagerly buy quite a few NA’s. NA offered redesigned characters. 2002 was a redesign of characters to be sure, but they were still pretty similar to the vintage designs. IE: He-Man wasn’t in pants carrying a lightsaber.
I guess it’s different strokes for different folks, but I think vintage fans probably are more welcoming in to new styles. Vintage fans have long forgiven NA and POP for their sins and would buy them. The only ones vintage might have a problem with was 2002.
Newt
12.08.2008 3.55
I’m sure I’ll get flak for saying this, but I think the whole idea that people aren’t going to buy certain generations of He-Man is massively overblown.
And again, it’s an idea that I’ve mainly heard come out of the mouths of 200X fans. They won’t buy this line because they already have superior figures (in their minds at least) and even then it seems to be only that minority who have taken such a stance.
Obviously not all 200X fans are like that. MegaGear is apparently buying the new figures, but he also wants a commitment from Mattel to spend whatever necessary to make 200X styles and seeing as how that seems unlikely, I wonder if he’ll eventually give up his crusade or quit buying MOTUC all together.
I think this whole “war” between branches of fans is complete rubbish. Which goes back to my original point. Many of these fans who are upset now are a lot like the Joe fans who were upset and eventually stopped complaining and got on board.
I know Mattel’s got my money every month if the figures keep being awesome.
Banner
12.08.2008 4.46
@Newt: Well said.
I don’t really get the concept that the 2002 style will look so much better than the new style anyway. Certainly the 2002 style Beastman looks better than vintage Beastman, but I don’t think he holds a candle to MOTUC Beastman and I’m not just talking in terms of articulation either. I think everything about the new Beastman is better than 2002 Beastman.
And while the Staction of Mantanna looks better than vintage Mantanna, is there any guarntee that the MOTUC Mantanna won’t end up looking even better? I’m willing to bet he probably does.
Same for Clawful. I actually trust the 4H’s ability. I bet they can as MegaGear put it, “tinker with Skeletor” and actually make him look COOLER than 2002 Clawful. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised.
And some of the 2002 designs weren’t that great themselves. I thought the redesign of Whiplash was pretty craptacular. I actually prefer the angled, thinner look of the original Whiplash.
That’s why I think it’s all down to look and characters. It’s not what “era” does this figure come from that makes me decide if I want it or not. It’s if it’s a cool looking representation of that character. Beyond that you can slap whatever label you want on it, POP, NA, 2002, The Fruity Brigade Adventures of He-Man… Doesn’t matter as long as it looks cool.
And I don’t think it matters how many new parts are on the figure either. One of my favorite figures from DCUC is Black Manta. He’s got a new head and backpack and the rest of him is just a plain black body! But he’s an awesome figure and the 4H have basically made the best Manta figure ever and only used a handful of parts. I think we can trust the 4H to make new parts where necessary and make the figures look out of this world. I think the guys are much better sculptors now than they were in 2002.
Mark
12.08.2008 4.47
Totally agree Newt. We are getting the best MOTU figures ever. Which we should all be thankful for.
Mark
12.08.2008 4.53
@Banner, you are also right, not all the re-designs were for the better. Thanks to the body re-use like the originals we are sure toget a cool Whiplash.
MegaGearX
12.08.2008 10.23
@Banner
POP doesn’t mean Hordak or the Horde. They were MOTU figures, not POP. POP means all of the figures from the girl’s line with the combs and rooted hair.
You should check out some of the posts concerning POP and NA on the org then. The old childhood prejudices are still there.
If the 200X figures beat the original figures, imagine MOTUC versions of the 200X going farther than MOTUC? You’re comparing MOTUC to 200X. I’m talking about MOTUC-izing the 200X figures into the new MOTUC style. I think people would love to get a more spider-like Webstor or a more bee-like Buzz-Off.
Unlike some of the other vocal 200X supporters, I like MOTUC. I just lament the fact that most characters will go back to being repaints when they evolved past them in 200X. Of course this is much assumption on my part. The 4H could surprise everyone and make characters more unique, negating the need for 200X versions of MOTUC.
Then again, Mattel might want to keep the differences between Classic and 200X in order to sell 200X versions of MOTUC again when they’ve exhaused all of the vintage versions of the major characters, akin to the way Hasbro keeps selling Optimus Prime and Megatron. Of course this is down the line when MOTUC is on fumes, making D-list vintage characters like Meteorbs and the Energy Zoids.
Stitchfett
12.08.2008 10.42
This thing is a blessing in disguise,why you ask?… the average cost of a 6″ fig is around $10-15 + $8-9 s/h = $18-24 and this is for a regular figure,no varian,or chase/hot/high demand character, sure you can go to your local retail store but how many you will have to visit before you find the figure your looking for? and how about retails exclusives and scalpers? how much you would really have to spend to get that figure?.
OK,I get it…you like to hunt,search for the figure,the felling of success because it’s yours hahahahahaha!!!(sorry).
Yes the price look a little stiff but have you checked for how much it’s going in that internet place,you can go right now to Mattel.com and buy it for $30 but there are people paying $40+ in auction???
In the end the only real complain is the $30 dollars issue because if the price was $10 I really doubt that anyone would be complaining about the looks.
P.S. I’m still not have bought it, I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop and buy it at clearance (yeah, right).
MegaGearX
12.08.2008 11.22
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=47720&d=1228752122
Good example of what I’d like. It’s not for everyone, but if you want MOTU characters to look largely different, then this would work.
Where MOTUC celebrates the vintage repaints, MOTUC 200X would celebrate the modern updates.
Something for everybody.
Poe
12.08.2008 11.42
@MGX: Wow, that’s an excellent custom (or is it? is it just a Photoshopping?) and a great example of what a MOTUC 200X figure would look like.
What I found interesting, though, is that look at that photo proved to me I really do prefer the classic MOTUC to the revamped version. I guess I just prefer the nostalgia.
Still, I’d buy it if they sold it.
Can you link me to the original thread that was posted in?
Poe
12.08.2008 11.46
Never mind, found it.
MegaGearX
12.08.2008 11.46
Sure!
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/showthread.php?t=161750&page=11
Mark
12.08.2008 11.47
It would be nice to have some figures with unique body parts like Webstor, Buzz-Off, Whiplash. Saying that, the vintage figures could make figures vdiffernt looking enough with some part swapping so it should work the second time around. For more unique characters like Webstor etc and Spikor they could get away with just a new body.
MegaGearX
12.08.2008 11.49
Waitaminute…If you’d buy it, then are you down to sign the petition on the .org?
Mark
12.08.2008 11.57
That custom looks excellent…but I am going to have to agree with Poe on this. If it was the only He-Man out I would buy it, but I prefer the Classic thats out.
Poe
12.08.2008 12.05
@MGX: Sure, done. But to be clear, I’m still happy with MOTUC as-is, at least right now. That could change if they actually do create some 2002-style versions, though. I’ve been known to change my mind (“I am large, I contain multitudes”).
Newt
12.08.2008 20.43
That He-Man looks cool. No doubt. But even if I bought it, the current MOTUC He-Man would be my “default” He-Man.
I think some characters obviously could improve but I’m not sure everyone needs a 200Xing. I think that’s the problem.
Mark
12.09.2008 7.15
@Newt, totally agree.