It’s probably going to be a light week for PGPoA, for various reasons. But I hate to leave you guys without something to think about, so here’s a question.
Mattel recently noted that the JLU Gotham Criminals set wasn’t selling to expectations on Mattycollector.com, so after the Legion of Super Heroes pack, the future of JLU Matty exclusives could be in doubt:
In other JLU news, we are going forward with the next MattyCollector.com 4 pack, Legion of Superheroes which will be on sale May 15th. However, it is no secret that the Gotham Criminals pack (still on sale now on MattyCollector.com!) has not sold to expectations.
As a JLU collector myself, nothing would be cooler than to keep JLU four packs going indefinately on my webstore. But unless sales pick up with this next pack, sadly that may not be the case. We can only produce figures for Matty.com if fans are buying them. Quite litterally this is your chance to vote with your purchase.
We will go forward with the LOSH pack, but anything past that is up in the air as to whether enough fan demand exisits to keep online packs going. So if you are a JLU fan or know someone who is, tell em to get over to MattyCollector.com and pick up a set today!
Some fans have interpreted this (albeit in rather hysterical fashion) as blackmail on the part of Mattel: buy the Gotham Criminals and LOSH sets or you’ll never see the Marvel Family or any other JLU exclusives.
I’m not sure what I think about this yet. On the one hand, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Mattel to say that if the product doesn’t sell, they can’t continue to produce more.
On the other hand, Mattel should be making sure their online exclusives are desirable. From what I understand, the Gotham Criminals pack wasn’t perfect because it had some significant and perhaps inappropriate re-uses from other figures (anyone who knows more about this, please feel free to clarify or correct me). And yet Giganta sold out, so clearly fans wanted her.
I worry about the next DCUC two-pack, Ultraman and Alex Luthor, for similar reasons–while the figures look good, they’re pretty damned obscure (frankly, I would have gone with the modern Ultraman look, since he recently had a big role in Final Crisis), and I think more than one DCUC collector will be able to pass on the set. Not me, of course, but definitely some.
So my question to you is: if Mattel can no longer afford to sell JLU on Mattycollector.com, is it more due to Mattel’s character choices and/or prices, or the waning popularity (or relative unpopularity) of JLU?
Newton Gimmick
@Bossk: Yeah Star Wars has been around for a long time, but JLU while smaller, hasn't had all the promotion that Star Wars has. Since Star Wars has tons of stuff backing it, JLU doesn't.
As for the nonsense about JLU not having high production totals? That's just total drivel mate. JLU was a mass market toy with several pegs per store until this past year when it went to Target exclusive.
The fact that the brand continues to sell, despite being probably the worst handled brand in recent Mattel history is a testiment to how powerful it is as a brand overall. You obviously don't understand what I meant by it being a strong brand.
Bossk
"4. I’d contend that the JLU brand is probably one of if not THE strongest line in the history of toys. Say what?"
Are you insane!!!! Production totals are low for this line not nearly selling the amount of a powerhouse line like Star Wars. Star Wars has been strong since 1995 (don't even include the vintage days) Hasbro has probably sold the same Obi wan or Anakin figure for the same total amount as the entire JLU run
Frogster
I just want Scarecrow…period. He's my favorite Bat villain; just not going to pay 30 plus shipping to get the one figure I really want though. Scarecrow and Harley should have went retail in actuality.
David
I was a completest collector of this line. I have 19 standing next to me right now recreating Green Lantern #25. I was SUPER excited when the first Target-exclusive figures were revealed. HAWKMAN! MANTIS! GOOD BATMAN VARIANTS! Then they made it to the stores.
And IF you could find them, the paint apps (which is what you are REALLY paying for since it's the same bodies) were beyond a mess. I REALLY wanted a Hawkman, but every time I found him, the red circle on the chest was translucent and sometimes even the hawk emblem was way off center.
The straw that broke the camel's back though, was when I got the new Secret Society 6-pack. I thought I picked out a good one (there were no good Legends of the League options) where everybody was okay. And SIX figures I wanted (because I'm a big Batman fan)!
But Batman. The show accurate Batman I had wanted for so long. His fist is melted off. Should I return the whole set? Odds are against me finding another one. I decide to write Mattel.
I get a $6 coupon that expires at the end of this month. I STILL haven't found anything of theirs I want to buy. I am a BIG Batman fan. The TNBA villians 4 pack was brilliant to me. But I'm not buying it.
And I'm done with the line.
Dan
Its a simple supply and demand issue. Mattel simply need to get smarter with their volume forecasting for their lines. They have clearly under-estimated on MOTUC and under-estimated on this first JLU 4 pack. Threatening customers due to their inexperience is no way to run a business.
Newton Gimmick
Oh and JLU fans are annoyed by this line:
As a JLU collector myself, nothing would be cooler than to keep JLU four packs going indefinately on my webstore. But unless sales pick up with this next pack, sadly that may not be the case.
JLU COLLECTOR MYSELF? Matty is a imaginary character. He ain't no damn JLU collector. If Matty was a real JLU collector, he'd kick himself in the balls.
Newton Gimmick
As the only person here who collects JLU, I'll tell you specifically what the problem is.
1. These figures aren't desireable. There is a HUGE list of JLU wants that most all fans agree with. Of the figures produced in this set, only Harley was on that list and most fans are content with the Hasbro Harley from years back. The only "new" figure was Scarecrow. A great figure, but not necessarily worth $30 if you don't care for the others.
2. The price point. Why make 4 figures when you can make 1? If Mattel made a single desireable JLU figure it'd sell better than 4 half assed figures.
3. The set has barely been on sale for two months. Why is that a problem? It WILL sell. But it has to be given time. JLU is a smaller line, and it's readily avaliable at Target, unlike MOTUC which is ONLY available at Matty. So fans aren't choosing between He-Man or no He0Man they're choosing between a couple of 18th string characters. It's just not the same and it's unfair that Matty is comparing the sales of the two brands.
4. Finally, the JLU brand is waning a bit, but not much. I'd contend that the JLU brand is probably one of if not THE strongest line in the history of toys. Say what? Yes think about it. JLU fans are forced to buy multiples of figures they don't want, have crappy case packouts, search and search and search (You DCUC guys think you got it bad? Been dealing with this crap since JLU first hit!)
The only reason the JLU line has EVER lost steam was because of Mattel. Plain and simple. The line itself is STRONG as all get out. However, Mattel is constantly crapping on the fan base and it's slowly forcing fans out. That's the only reason the JLU collector base has shrunk. Sadly instead of Mattel working to rebuild that base, they'd rather lay blame on the fans.
5. Fans have offered Mattel no less than a 100 solutions to the MattyCollector JLU problem… But Matty hasn't listened to a single one.
Finally: No fans have been crapped on more than JLU fans. Look up the Hal Jordan debacle if you want to see some of the silliness that Mattel has been putting the JLU fans through for years. The line is strong, the brand is strong, Mattel simply needs to give it time to sell. Who cares if a product doesn't sell overnight? The JLU 4 Pack will sell out in a bit, but Matty is simply being unreasonable insisting that it sell at the same kind of rate that MOTUC sells.
PrfktTear
@Andrew: Very true.
Valo makes an interesting point. Whats with their sense of "urgency". If an item doesn't sell out in three hours a la Faker, is it a failure? Adam Strange/Starfire took more than a month to sell out, are they failures?
monkey boy
this type of blackmail isn't anything new from toy companies. even hasbro, a company i respect tons more than mattel, has tried it with the force unleashed rancor last year, telling fans "if you don't buy this purple painted rancor, the retailers won't order the original trilogy rancor you all really want!"
however, i'm really suspicious of anything mattel says about things not meeting expectations and therefore not being worth the cost. this is a company who, first of all, is still making a crapload of money on girly barbie toys. second of all, their two "hot" lines, DCUC and MOTUC, are based on heavy re-use. JLU had a lot of re-use as well. and it's not like DCUC, MOTUC or JLU are inexpensive, so the savings is NOT being passed on to the consumer. i can't see how mattel doesn't have like a warehouse full of money at this point. i think they can afford to fail a tiny bit on something like JLU 4 packs.
look at what hasbro's doing and compare. they still give us new sculpts in just about every SW wave, and they balance it by occasionally throwing in a repaint wave, and saga legends, and/or having some repaints/retools in the main waves to keep making money off existing tooling. but the recent new hope wave of figures had a LOT of new sculpt…the only re-use was the stormtrooper based figures (which are guaranteed to sell high anyway). but they managed to get 4 new sculpt mos eisley aliens, a new sculpt of obi wan, a new sculpt jawa and new droid sculpt…compare that to something like DCUC where there's really no such thing as a "new sculpt".
then look at a line hasbro features heavy re-use in, like GI Joe. often the re-use in this line goes unnoticed because hasbro sculpts unique vests and various removable outfitting that go OVER said re-used sculpts. they don't hit a home-run every time, but they understand the INNOVATIVE way to re-use body sculpts. there's variety in a hasbro GI Joe shelf, whereas at this point my DCUC shelf looks like the same dude dressed up in different halloween costumes.
Mattel really just takes it too far. it's like they delight in crappy re-use. you'd think they were a struggling, SOTA-esque specialty market company and not one of the top mass market toy companies in the world.
here's an idea mattel, use all that money you saved NOT sculpting a new body for starfire, and recycle it into continuing the JLU. at least then maybe every single toy collector in the world wouldn't feel quite so much like you'd taken a dump on their faces with that absolutely pathetic attempt at a starfire figure.
Andrew
"actually listening to some of the fan feedback"
Which 'some,' though? Let's be honest: we all know that online fandom's a smaller subset of larger fandom, and even more schizoid. You get some people in love with MOTUC, then you get the cranky people who're dominated by recentalgia for the 200X line. You give one group of 'fans' what they want and you have three times as many 'fans' saying Mattel is disrespecting the product, the fans, the franchise, your mom, etc.
Janarrah
I usually find villains less interesting to collect than heroes….so, no wonder that this set sells less! In any case, since these items are pretty much manufactured to order, Mattle takes little risk…unless they get greedy.
Valo487
I think there are numerous factors causing the issue here. First of all, I can't help but feel that Mattel got spoiled by the sales of MOTUC, as I vividly remember them saying in a Matty facebook post how the Masters collectors are killing the DC fans, and that if the DC fans want to continue to see exclusives, they need to vote with their purchase, so they've been hinting around that they want more purchases to keep the lines around. Yes, they are a business, and want to make profit, but frankly, if you run a line that can only be continued if it sells out in a few weeks, then that is a STUPID way to run a business. If they're just not selling enough at all, that's one thing, but they're not doing themselves any favors comparing DC lines to MOTUC as they are two different properties and can't be expected to perform the same way.
Also, I'm puzzled why they chose some of these characters for the exclusive set, as Scarecrow, Bane, and Harley would have sold well at retail as they are far more recognizable than Kilowog for example. I fail to understand why they can't also have individual characters available on Matty, so people that don't want all four can pick up the ones they do. I've read numerous posts on forums stating that they only want Scarecrow, Harley, ect. Make the set a few dollars cheaper to entice buyers to get all four, but if they only want one or two make it possible for them to do that.
Finally, the use of themes with these four packs may be part of it also, if some fans don't want bat villains, there goes a lot of sales right there. I personally could care less about the LOSH, but I'll buy the set as they're new characters and also to support the line, but by using themes it's easier for a fan who doesn't like those characters to skip it as opposed to mixing it up to appeal to as many people as possible.
I just don't understand Mattel's urgency, Giganta took the longest time to sell out of the SDCC exclusives, so there's clearly a fanbase, but it's not as big as that for MOTUC and DCUC, they should have considered available information beforehand, instead of realizing THEY MADE A MISTAKE and putting pressure on the fans to pick up their slack.
Griffin
I also think that people might be upset with the scale of the Gotham Criminals. Bane is too small and Clock King is way huge. Honestly this exclusive doesn't make sense to me, since stores will carry four packs and only Clock King is that obscure. Plus if you are going to have an exclusive and sell it at a premium plus shipping, you have to make the quality top notch. An exlusive should be used for something that stores wouldn't carry normally. Character selection is usually irelevant to what stores will carry anyway, unless they are wal-mart and want the cheapest product they can get. Does Target really look at the character selection in a wave and say , "I just don't know if kids will buy Ultra-man, I've never heard of him." If anything shelf appeal might come into play. I could see stores having qualms about a Commisioner Gordon Barbara Gordon Two-pack with wheelchair, so that would be the perfect exclusive in my mind.
Scott
Don't see anything wrong with the character selection for JLU. I just think they're overpriced for figures that would sell just fine at retail. If they're going to have exclusives for a line that's otherwise available at retail, they should be at a comparable price, like the DCUC sets are.
It would be nice in general if those figures would stand better though.
Philip Reed
For me it's because of the poor articulation and design of the other Infinite Heroes figures. Combine bad toys with high prices and it's a "no sell" in my book.
If Mattel wants to sell me some 3.75-inch DC figures then they need to relaunch the line with better articulation, accessories, and an improvement in the overall quality of the figures. I like the idea of the line, but the toys themselves are inferior to Hasbro's 3.75-inch figures.
Griffin
I don't collect JLU so I can't speak to that, but as a general principle I cannot afford to support bad product in hopes that there will be good product later. Bad may be too harsh because its really just something I don't want, but I just don't have the money or the space to do it.
Sea-of-Green
It's probably due to the fact that there's no longer a JLU series (people are watching Batman: Brave & Bold now). But I never thought the figures were that great to begin with. That, and I HATE it when two or more figures are packaged together, 'cause I usually just want one figure and not the other. HATE that.
Nicholai
I do think the waning popularity of JLU is a large contributing factor to the problems the line faces. Myself, I've never been a JLU collector, but it does hurt to watch a line be so close to ending.
I agree about the next DCUC 2-pack. I'm unsure Alexander Luthor and Ultraman have what it takes and if they don't sell well it will create problems for future exclusives just like the golden age Hawks and Supergirl/Luthor two-packs.
I think that there is definitely a problem for DCUC though because it must be difficult to decide who to create in two-pack form as the line itself at stores has been putting pretty obscure characters out there so you want to make exclusives for characters that wouldn't work well in a line but who would be exciting enough for a collector to pick up.
As a Crisis on Infinite Earths fan I'm excited for the Alexander Luthor/Ultraman two-pack.
PrfktTear
I think fans and toy companies need to meet each other at least half way. From a consumer's stand point, it should be even more on the part of Mattel.
Obviously toy companies are in the business to make money first and foremost, so it makes no sense to keep producing a line that is basically hemmoraging cash and leaving you with excessive stock.
On the other hand, cranky collectors need to look at the BIG PICTURE. Maybe at not whats being offered now, but what about five months or a year down the line? Then again, collectors should not feel like they have to buy stuff they don't want just so they might potentially have the opportunity to get something they do want down the line.
I think in the end the onus lies with Mattel to make, as you said Poe, desirable products. I think there is something to be said about an online exclusive and that it should be something that goes above and beyond what you might find in stores and is obscure but also something people would want.
I think something as simple as an online poll or actually listening to some of the fan feedback would be a good compass to guage what would be popular/profitable figures.
I think its the old cliche, "if you build it they will come". They proved it right with Giganta, and to look at MOTUC, that is proving to be wildly popular, so its a matter of finding the right balance.