Marvel Legends close 1 by Carls Life
At their Marvel SDCC panel, Hasbro said that 6″ Marvel Legends would be returning “in full force” in 2012. I started to wonder why that would be, given how strongly they’ve been pushing Marvel Universe, and I’m wondering if it’s the success of DCUC that has them reconsidering.
Since the mid-1990s, there’s always been an “it” line or two in our hobby, a line whose notoriety isn’t necessarily just the sales, but also the influence and general reputation among collectors. In the mid-1990s it was Spawn and Star Wars POTF, and then in the late 1990s, Movie Maniacs. Spider-Man Classics/Marvel Legends took over in the early 2000s and, aside from brief appearances by Millennium MOTU and Lord of the Rings, Marvel reigned alone as the “it” line until the arrival of the 25th Anniversary G.I. Joes. Shortly thereafter, DCUC and MOTUC made their debut, and I think right now those lines have the strongest buzz and most rabid fandom.¹
A large portion of the Marvel collectors today got hooked on the 6″ Marvel Legends originally, so I’m wondering if Hasbro was unable to get quite the same traction with Marvel Universe that they (or rather, Toy Biz) were able to with ML. Fans had to start over with their collections, and while MU did get a big push, I haven’t noticed as much interest and buzz around the line from casual fans as I did with ML. Perhaps I’m just not paying enough attention, so correct me if I’m wrong on that. But I think a lot of ML fans (including me) migrated to DCUC for the 6″ superhero fix. Now I’m wondering if the popularity of DCUC is what’s behind Hasbro’s promise to bring back 6″ Marvel Legends.
Of course, I’m just speculating here. The Marvel Legends 2-packs I’ve seen at TRU don’t seem to be flying off the shelves, though as I said, I haven’t been paying very close attention. The somewhat lesser quality of Hasbro’s ML figures relative to Toy Biz’s efforts could be part of that too, though. And there’s another issue: ML had enough waves to get through quite a few of the major Marvel characters, so perhaps there’s some of your basic line fatigue there. Nonetheless, Hasbro apparently believes they can make another go at it in a couple years.
What do you think? Will Marvel Legends successfully rise again, or should they put the whole line on hold for a decade or so and let the ML nostalgia build?
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¹ Transformers has always been extremely popular, but there have been so many different lines I’m not sure any of them have quite gotten the cross-fandom respect and popularity that, say, 25th Anniversary Joe has. Maybe the movie line, but I’m not sure about that. I can’t count the Masterpiece line because the figures are too few and far between, and too expensive, to generate the kind of buzz an “it” line has.
tool486
@The Historian:
Really? The line is old? I'm sure you haven't seen toys of Star Wars around, have you?? THAT line is old and still sells.
Fans are stuborn? Yes, fans spend money on figures of GOOD quality! Gawd forbid if I buy something and the quality isn't up-to-par.
A niche product? Yeah, I see your point, DCUC picked the idea and are making money off a "niche product".
I'm a huge Marvel Legends fan and think all lines were great! I've tried the DCUC line but the fact they have 3-4 body types for every DC character just doesn't attract me. For example, Robin should not be same size as Superman. I shouldn't buy a Sinestro then be told Mattel will make another one with appropriate body scale for me to buy.
Welcome back Marvel Legends! It's about friggin' time!
RM
@Poe – "At their Marvel SDCC panel, Hasbro said that 6″ Marvel Legends would be returning “in full force” in 2012. I started to wonder why that would be, given how strongly they’ve been pushing Marvel Universe, and I’m wondering if it’s the success of DCUC that has them reconsidering."
I don't think Mattel's product has anything to do with it at all.
In fact, I would say that the resurrection of the line is due to 4 words, and four words alone; "Marvel Studios' The Avengers".
That film (along with the reboot of the Spider-Man film franchise) is going to be big enough to warrant the extra product out there, with such high media saturation, the figures will sell no matter what.
Make no mistake, 2012 will be Marvel's biggest year ever.
JABBS
NICE PIC, CAN U TELL ME WHAT KIND OF DISPLAY YOU HAVE USED? WHERE DO I CAN FIND ONE?
Supermanjunkie78
I truly feel that Hasbro knows that they erred in letting Marvel Legends go down… Toy Biz' Marvel Legends were truly legendary in the toy industry! Fair to say that the great combination of great sculpt and articulation in the 6" line became industry standards! We all know that Mattel's DC Universe Classics and Masters of the Universe are the "it" line and ironic enough they owe their existence with Toy Biz' ML line. Sadly Hasbro's mis-management of that line is something they should know and learn from and hopefully come 2012 we can start seeing new and better 6" action figures of our favorite Marvel characters!
I know I'll kill to have the upcoming Avengers movie 6" action figures!!!
toyman2581
@dayraven:
Sigma Six ruled! Man they could have done so much more with that line.
Nuker
I think if Hasbro brings back ML they definitely need to innovate the market. Perhaps if they treat these figures with true reverence like a Japanese comany might do. I really think it's high time they do things like add multiple heads (masked/unmasked), loads of gear, swappable hands, solidly constructed flying bases, and some sort of ratchet system for the joints. Because quite frankly just redoing old overdone characters again in the same tired way won't get people excited, especially with today's market. They would have to do something that's outside of what Mattel does. I think a reusable buck system would be okay if they could somehow add all this extra cool stuff to justify price. Besides these companies have to realize by now it is big kids like us (aged 20-35) who buy these damn things and not little kids who would just loose the spare parts.
Chris
While I did not read all the responses, I would like to add my two cents.
As far as Marvel Legends goes, I am not really concerned unless it gets me a figure in scale to Marvel Universe. I will be honest MU pulled me in like a fish on a hook for several reasons. 1 is price, 7-9 bucks per figure/character is a lot easier to swallow than the 15+ for Legends. 2 size, I can fit a vast amount more 3.75 inch figures on a shelf or in a box than say my DC Universe Classics figures.
I also have to take exception that a 6 inch figure necessarily means more detail or whatever than 3.75 inch. All anyone has to do is compare DCUC to the upcoming G.I. Joe Pursuit of Cobra toys, or heck any Joe line since 25th Anniversary. Marvel Universe may not have had that level of detail but one only has to look at the most recent releases to see the ones that need it getting better and better. My only problem with the line is that being in the UK, distribution is patchy at best but that covers pretty much everything.
I would be happy for Hasbro to push the line as hopefully it will sate the group of fans that continue to demand them.
To those who say that Alternators were the best line of Transformers I have to disagree. 1 while licensed alternate modes of vehicles you like is cool, it can limit what can be done with the figure and either calls for a reduced quality figure or increased price. 2 at the price of 20 bucks a pop they were essentially collector only which was fine if another toy line was available to keep the franchise running. 3 size, though big enough to have seats no action figure Hasbro made at the time was small enough to fit inside the car so they were large for seemingly no reason other than to sit in a particular scale to the real car.
I like Marvel Universe, the toy line fits me, I like DC Universe as well but really end up just wishing that Mattel's DC Infinite Heroes were a better competition for my funds and better matched with MU.
The Historian
Marvel Legends 5.0 is a huge risk, and yes it's 5.0, 1.0 was through ML8, 2.0 was BAF through ML15, 3.0 was Hasbro, and 4.0 was ML's exclusives assortment.
ML9 was a relaunch, HML1 was a relaunch, the exclusive 2-packs and series were a relaunch. Every relaunch was an attempt to buy the brand some extra time.
Fans like to think of it all like one long line, but it's not. The line's matured and declined several times without any real expansion. The line will never expand like it did in 2002-2006, when it was only $1-2 more per figure than a licensed 3.75" figure.
I fell in love with the original Marvel Legends – 6" figure, base, and comic book for $7. I liked the ability to choose, and BAF took that away. For me, BAF was the first nail in ML's coffin because suddenly I was being told I had to buy 4 mediocre or unwanted figures to get the best figure in the series. Jesse Falcon swore up and down that Walmart didn't want a boxed Galactus or Sentinel, even though those were the "free money" years and everybody was living large relative to where we are now.
Why is Walmart taking big-box Marvel items now as opposed to them? Why did ML fall back on using marketing gimmicks instead of letting the figure speak for itself? Why is it so important to bring ML back? MU is entering the expansion phase of its product cycle in 2011 and it could expand through 2014. In the same period, ML is going to go through another maturity and decline. Why? Because 95% of consumers would rather have two figures than one figure at any given price point. Two 4" figures for $15 is better value than one 6" figure.
But what do I know? It's Hasbro's money, let them supplicate to a bunch of whiny complainers who will never realize that Marvel Legends will never again be the line it started as. The line is old, the fans are stubborn, and you don't make money at mass retail with what has become, ostensibly, a niche product.
…did I beat Damien's word count yet? 🙂
Lemonjuice_McGee
@Damien: "Hasbro is just the master of jerking off right in your face." That my friend, is what I call a description!
I miss the old Toy Biz MLs a lot, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to invest very much in a new Hasbro line. Realistically I'll only choose the characters I really like and won't be scouring the aisles like I do for DCUC.
Snarf! Snarf!
Heck! I'm buying DCUC figs… and I'm what you'd say a Marvel Zombie, but as Dlia pointed out, Joe Q is a huge factor in the current anti-Marvel sentiment
Poe
@Dlia: Distribution issues are irrelevant to the notion of "success" I'm talking about here. When the Fwoosh–the Fwoosh, Marvel Legends central!–has 92K posts about DC Universe to 90K about Marvel, I call that success.
Crazy
@MegaGearX: "Ben Reily, Vision, FA She-Hulk, Adam Warlock, Quicksilver and Ultimate Iron Man"
Ben Reilly, Adam Warlock, Quicksilver and the Ultimate War Machine (later release of Ultimate Iron Man armor) are some of my favorites from the later waves of HML.
Barbecue17
@dayraven:
Sigma 6 is my favorite toyline. Ever.
outburst
MLs were fantastic in their day but I generally like the sleek look of DCUC better. The marionette-like look of MLs has aged poorly (more among some figures than others) so if Hasbro brings the line back, they need to raise the bar another notch. Perhaps take some notes from the 4 Horseman's style but add something extra to the mix.
If that happens, I'll happily update/add to my Marvel collection with the next version of Legends.
I guess what I'm saying is, I hope it's a reboot with a fresh approach rather than a continuation of the old line, which will be a decade old by the time this relaunch happens.
dayraven
for the quality nuts out there, i submit that hasbro was kind of hit and miss, but they had some nice successes… lord thor, hercules, the hulks, all felt very solid and have held up well. vs like say the last couple TB waves, which was SUPER soft and rubbery.
i would also like to say that TB and then hasbro, were and are workiong on a buck system like mattel uses, the difference is, there's a ton of parts they can use to mix & match and make new charaacters… to my personal feelings, a FAR better solution than the say rehashed crap we get from mattel over and over again. you know what's great about the TB method? oh, daredevil and deadpool could share a body, but each has their distinct personalities and don't feel like a cheap rehash. whereas, GLU feels so third rate that only the C&C character can save that line. seriously, how many bloody DCU figs are a simple head swap and vague palette swap? for real?
i definitely will give everyone that hasbro could have done better w/ how they handled the line, BUT in comparison, i think their worst gaff, the price jump on the hulk wave, was still lightyears better than the quality of the figs and the quantity of the accessories that you're getting out of the modern DCU line for the same price. compare kilowog to FFF and seriously, price difference aside, you can easily see where your money went. and as someone pointed out, compare the first two hasbro waves of ML to the last two, and look at the gradually improving quality of the two packs and the MUniverse/IM movie figs. they seem to be getting their wits about them again, so while history would imply that they'll cancel ML in a year (about the time they're supposed to be firing things back up) i hold a candle of hope against the wind of pessimism.
oh, and one last note, to you 25th anniversary joe lovers… you wanna talk betrayal? i was a sigma six fan… THAT'S where your momentum came from, and that line was literally killed mid stride.
Demonicfirefly
I gave up on marvel legends about the nemesis wave. I only got punishe rand daredevil. I was not impressed with either and I love frank.
unless they jump their qualitly to the level of DCUC, I'm not buying anything from that line,which is sad cause im a sucker for punisher.
Russ
@Damien:
I fully agree with you; they pulled the same thing in the late 90s with Batman Beyond, which I've never forgiven them for. Need I mention "Batlink"? 😛
They didn't even try with it, and actually said 'we're seriously considering discontinuing our contract with DC", to which I wondered "you sound discouraged about making figures based on a hot license; why is this?"
Dlia
If anyone was following the comics in the past decade, you'd probably have all you're energy sucked straight out of Marvel to begin with. I was one of those unlucky hundreds/thousands(?). Thanks Joe Q, Tom B, etc, etc
And DCUC a success? Really? Distribution, distribution. Tsk. Tsk.
MegaGearX
I got into ML rather late, around 2003. A Wizard price guide article where they showed all of the Marvel Legends thus far in their own dioramas is what influenced me to buy them.
Shortly after this, Hasbro brought the Marvel license and butchered the line with terrible figures like Ben Reily, Vision, FA She-Hulk, Adam Warlock, Quicksilver and Ultimate Iron Man. Not only this, but we also got refugees from X3, clogging slots.
When they shifted focus to MU, I stopped buying their substandard, underpainted Legends.
Recently I got into MU from seeing the Enchantress and the Wrecking Crew…characters ML never got too and probably wouldn't have reached anyway. I was so sure that ML was going to finish soon, that I moved on to MU, thinking that this is where all of the energy was going. And now ML is to return in 2012…
I really hope those figures are good. This new Marvel Legends now has to handle the legacy of the Toy Biz version, the competition from the 4H's DCUC and fans having to start up a fresh Marvel collection for the third time.
Snarf! Snarf!
Too little too late.
Hasbro dropped the ball starting with wave one of ML. (Eliminating Paint jobs, Eliminating Articulation, spreading BAF parts in a ridiculous manner,shoving X-3 characters in almost every wave, etc.) While some sculpts looked great, the artic was decreasing. Look at the Spider-Man sub Line Tarantula for an example of Hasbrofied ML articulation.
I've had the 2 packs in my hands and I end up leaving them all the time… Hasbro killed my love for ML.