Poe’s Point > Perspectives on the King Hssss Shouldergate

There is a lot of anger among fans about King Hssss’s reversed shoulders. I was part of a Roast Gooble podcast the other day in which this topic was discussed at length (it’ll be posted later this week), but I think it was Val “JVS3” Staples who most accurately described my own feeling on the matter: fatigue. I just can’t muster the indignation this time. Part of it is because I managed to correct the problem, but part of it is just being tired of the drama surrounding this line of toys.

I’m tired of the QC mistakes, of course.

I’m also tired of the discussions about the mistakes, the price, the subscription, the Mattycollector website, the character selection, and the 200X/MOTUC arguments, all of which have been so negative in tone (on He-Man.org, here, and elsewhere) that it’s made me consider quitting PGPoA so I can enjoy my hobby in peace. Or at least dropping the news and figure reviews and focusing on articles about vintage lines, childhood memories, interviews and so forth.

Finally, I’m tired of Mattel’s responses; this one was OK, but they should have just left it at that, perhaps with a later check-in to say they were taking steps to make sure this truly never happened again. But this is just bad public relations. I think Scott Neitlich may be burnt out himself by all this, and I won’t hold it against him if he’s feeling a bit defensive, but I’ll often write a reply like that–to a comment or a post–and then just delete or edit it, having expended my frustration in the writing of the note.

It’s incumbent upon Neitlich and Bill Benecke to make clear to the higher-ups that QC needs to be a priority on this line. Bring the Four Horsemen in, too, since they’re the foolproof check on the design. Had the Horsemen been allowed to check figures before they went to production, we would have been spared the first He-Man’s reversed shoulders, Roboto’s reversed shoulders, Hssss’s reversed shoulders, and we would have gotten Prince Adam’s sword sheath.

—-

While collectors are handling the outrage side of things for this round of Shouldergate, I’ve been more interested in finding out exactly how this is happening. My questions include:

  • At what stage of development are the “L” and “R” stamped on the shoulders?
  • Who does it? Not the specific person by name, but rather, what their role/job is.
  • Is it done by a Mattel employee, or someone in an overseas factory?
  • Is it done by someone familiar with the product?
  • Is there time between the stamping of the “L” and “R” to review a sample for quality control and make corrections if necessary?

To gain some insight on these questions, I contacted Joe Amaro, Director of Product Development for Jazwares. (Check out Joe’s awesome customs here.) Of course, Joe can’t speak for Mattel and can only speak for his own experiences. I want to thank Joe for taking the time to answer my questions.

So many people are involved at various stages that sometimes it is difficult to control the entire process.  We see only one figure, where the production people and the factories see thousands!

Any figure that has multiple joints you run the risk of flipping the parts. It’s an easy mistake that happens all the time to all toy companies. Especially with parts that look very similar. This is usually with biceps, shoulders, calves, knees and sometimes feet. It usually does not make the product defective, it’s more of a cosmetic thing. It usually happens during production/assembly of the figures, but it can happen at various stages of pre-production as well.

When a sculpt is completed and approved, the next step is to make what is called a tooling model or tooling pattern. This is the sculpt with all the joints separated from where the metal tools are made from. Tools are the steel molds from which the various plastic parts are made from. Sometimes if the parts are not labeled correctly at this stage you can end up with “reversed” parts. Even before that, sometimes when a cast of the sculpt is made, to make the the tooling model, the parts can get switched around.

If the parts are reversed during production/assembly it is a very easy fix, because the parts are not meant to fit this way. However, if the “switch” happens early on in the process, in pre-production, then the fix becomes more difficult. Mainly because the parts are engineered to fit together, even if they are reversed.  In order to fix this you will need to retool certain parts.

I didn’t think Scott’s response was bad, he told the truth. He said they made a mistake internally and unfortunately they can’t easily fix it like they have other stuff. The April figures are already made and shipped. He fights for the fans all the time, as he is fan. I can tell you that being a fan in the toy industry is a double-edged sword. It is a constant battle over what we want as a fan and what we can be done for the better of the company. We’re trying to make two sets of people happy, both with two very different concerns. I bet you if it was up to him he would fix it right away, but it’s not that easy.

One thing is for sure, they do listen to the fans. Particularity Scott, he’s a big nerd too. I think involving the 4H more would help a ton. No one knows these figures and this line better than them!

 

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20 Comments

  1. clark

    I stay away from the .org because of the insanity that I've found in some of those threads. The main thing that bugs be is personal attacks on toyguru. I don't know the guy, and I've never met him, but I get the impression that he really does care about this line and wants fans to be happy. If all the decisions were up to him I bet we'd be getting plenty of 200x heads, more new sculpts, and all the paint variations we could handle. However, as it is he has to watch out for a bottom line with Mattel, and I think he does his best with giving us what we (and he)wants from these figures.

    I just don't like the lashing out that goes towards this one guy who is the voice of MOTUC.

    Sure QC issues bug me, but all of my complaints with Mattel and MOTUC really can be summed up in two words: Digital River.

  2. misterbigbo

    @ Poe:

    True dat. Bring on the sunshine!

  3. Josh

    I hate to side with Mattel on this, but I am.

    I won't excuse them, but they do what they can. Just like the guy from Jazwares seemed to explain, there's a ton of effort, production, and work that goes into making just ONE figure.

    No, they cannot go back and resculpt it. No, they cannot go fix a few thousands figures that are currently in shipment containers, shipping cases, and individual packages. No, they cannot and will not discount the next shipment.

    I understand the anger involved in paying for something that isn't 100% the way you want it. But Mattel is a publicly traded company that still tries to meet a very small demographic of buyers compared to their other markets. If you put it into perspective, DC and MOTUC fans get treated extremely well. I'm not saying suck it up and just get walked on. Use your voice, use your opinion, but don't come off sounding like a spoiled child.

    That's not directed towards anyone in particular, just the overall tone I get from a lot of fans.

  4. I kind of wonder if all of Mattel's problems and/or shortcomings might come under a different light; if MOTUC wasn't a "collector's line," and Mattel was facing competition from Thundercats and Sectaurs and knockoffs and everything else. And if QC issues that reach the customers were still met by an angry mom that would never buy you a MOTU figure again: there's "quittin' the line" right there.

  5. Poe

    @ misterbigbo: It's not specifically my site's comments (I think the PGPoA community is much more civil than many — already some of the comments on this particular thread have improved my mood), it's the overall tone of the online collector community. Which can be substituted for any fan community, really.

    Part of this is just me being gloomy. As you know, it's tough for us New Englanders in these last few weeks before spring starts, when we're just begging for a little sun and warmth.

  6. misterbigbo

    So yeah, that comments may annoy or depress me on occasion–that’s life.

    Okay, but isn't this precisely the reason you've contemplated quitting?

    This isn't a freedom of speech issue; folks can go to many websites to bitch and moan. I'm wondering if or why you want to give them a voice on your own site.

  7. Poe

    misterbigbo wrote:

    No matter how you dictate the tone, comments may get out of hand. Can you require registration before comments are posted, and block/ban unwanted users? Do you even want to be in the business of policing comments? Quite the can of worms to be opened.

    I'm not going to censor comments or ban people except in extreme situations. I'm a firm believer in free speech, so long as people don't start making personal attacks or swearing profusely.

    There's a line that can be crossed and will make me drop the banhammer, but it's an obvious line that everyone will know when they see it.

    So yeah, that comments may annoy or depress me on occasion–that's life. But I'm not going to tell anyone they can't say something.

  8. misterbigbo

    …I’m also tired of the discussions about the mistakes, the price, the subscription, the Mattycollector website, the character selection, and the 200X/MOTUC arguments,…

    Agreed; I've noticed a paucity of positivity. We don't have to be sycophantic fanboys, but you are right that the majority of comments are so negative.

    However, Mattel is conditioning its customers to be more defensive and thus negative, so we shouldn't be surprised when the criticism becomes vitriol.

    No matter how you dictate the tone, comments may get out of hand. Can you require registration before comments are posted, and block/ban unwanted users? Do you even want to be in the business of policing comments? Quite the can of worms to be opened.

  9. ero

    Vincent wrote:

    Honestly, if you didn’t notice it in your review it’s NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. Seriously, He-Man fans are some of the most annoying fans out there right now.

    They really are. And you're right, it's not that big of a deal. I think part of it is, sadly, Scott's fault. If he wasn't a fan, I think there'd be less of this going on. But because he cares and he's responsive, he gets walked all over. It's like soft parents with a stubborn child. I wouldn't blame him one bit for stopping his Ask Matty section. The way some people speak to him there is just repulsive.

    That said, I really hope you stick it out, Poe, because sites like this (and Toy Bender RIP — shout out, Vincent!) are what make collecting fun. Buying the toy is half of the circle, the other is being a part of a cool community. So please, please, keep it up! We need your well-reasoned, very pleasant posts.

  10. dayraven

    here is my question, and it's an honest one… at what point does observing legitimate problems become bitchy nitpicking?

    because while i certainly understand becoming down over overt negativity, and how this could make the hobby difficult to continue, if you include a comments section on the site, you're going to get comments from all of kinds of people. all kinds meaning both those who discuss things eloquently and rationally, and those who get emotional and who vent to feel better… i don't think one type of fan is any better or worse, and they all pay the same 30 bucks to get the toy, so they're all entitled to the same kvetching. the questions are, as i see it:

    1) are the fans talking trash on some company directing that vitriol at you or restricting it to the appropriate source?

    2) are you confusing legitimate observation with mindless ranting?

    3) is the loss of web hits worth alienating those who come here to "vent?"

    4) what is the intent of this website? is this a light and fluffy place, where we have to tiptoe around certain issues about the industry/toys we love, or we willing to be fair, and honest even when someone is bagging on a toy we like?

    this seems like kind of a difficult spot to be in, so i'm not insinuating that i know when i don't. after seeing you an noisy running your respective sites, i wouldn't touch a site like this for love or money. but i also am kind of a neanderthal, i lose perspective easily, and take things personally when they're not intended to be. i react emotionally first, and always have, so i don't have the patience or the emotional distance to successfully do what you're doing. i would take critiques on mattel personally, even if the comments aren't directed at me, and i would take i personally if someone didn't like a toy or property i did… hell, sometimes i do that even from the "visitor" position. it must be agonizing from the "director" position.

    but most of the critiques i see aren't directed at the site conductor. they're directed at the company who botches an item. the critiques against DCU, or MOTUC, or whatever are not critiques at PGPoA, nor poe him self. hell, i thought the whole point of the net handle was to provide a psychological barrier between the net persona and the real person, so the fact that you troll around as poe ghostal and i troll around as dayraven means we recognize how corrosive the environment we commune in can be, and we've taken steps to ward off it's effects… so it's incumbent on each of us to keep that distance and remember that we're discussing toys using superhero names to hide our identity. if that's creating too much stress, it's new hobby time.

    motuc is an easy example… you like what you're getting for the money more times than not… i generally feel they're not hitting the mark on giving me what i feel i'm paying for. so you and i disagree a lot on motuc. does it make me love motuc because you do? no. does my hate make you hate? it shouldn't (and i truly hope it's not) but value is subjective. if i see backwards shoulders, and the shoulders are indeed backwords, i should every right to point out that a fig has backwords shoulders, as that's not a subjective observation. and no matter what one us likes or dislikes on the matter me, the guy with the real name, is completely still pro jason… "poe" and "dayraven" don't effect my desire to see you succeed and be happy, no matter what gets said about what toy.

  11. Snarf! Snarf!

    I understand that "IT" happens.

    I understand that MOTUC lacks resources unlike Barbie or DCUC.

    I don't understand how DCUC has so many QC issues if they have the resources that MOTUC lacks.

    I don't like the answer on Matty which can be read as "Buy it or have no HSSS at all."

    Personally I'd rather have them slow down on vehicle/dioramas/misc. releases and pay more attention to QC.

  12. I agree with the feelings that Mattel should be doing a better job with QC. The reversed shoulders don't personally offend me — I also didn't notice — but what bothers me is that Mattel continues to have problems and fans are expected to just keep buying.

  13. Matt

    Thanks for interviewing Joe. It was interesting to see a bit more into the process.

    I hear you about the drama fatigue. I understand people's frustration with the toys they collect and the mistakes that happen. I get that it all comes from a place of passion, but it does get tiring when you read too much of it. I've cut down on the number of boards I frequent and that seems to help.

  14. jackstatic

    Theres stress marks on the scales (or wear and tear marks i guess) because the biceps are rubbing against the scales due to it being backwards, it wont break the figure, and the damage is done, so it currently is what it is. I have hsss posed and he will probably never move again. am i upset over the reversed shoulders? not as much as roboto. would I have noticed the shoulders being reversed had I not read about it? maybe… the gap did look pretty peculiar and out of place

    MY biggest concern right now is the fact that the waist slot for the torso pegs is sooooo beyond lose that the figure easily falls out of it. Shoulders are kinda secondary for me right now. I'll probably be picking up a second hsss, I wanted one from the get go, but it wasn't in the cards for me on the 15th. this time around on the 1st, Ill snag one, and make some alterations (which is what I wanted to do from the get go)

  15. George

    I know this is a bit unrelated but:

    I wish we had the resources of a large line like Barbie or even DCUC.

    What? He compares DCUC with Barbie; If they are producing a massive amount of DCUC's why is everything so WRONG? Because its obvious they don't have the "resources" as of right now to fix things.

    Is it a sales technique? Do it wrong the first time (Sinestro) just re-release it at a higher price (Wave 3=$9.99,2-pack re-release=2 figures at $31.99= $16 bucks each) and you'll keep your customers "happy".

  16. misterbigbo

    While I enjoy your reviews, and hope they continue, I can appreciate your frustration. Maybe if you made a shift and disabled comments on certain types of posts, or just referenced people to the forums? I'll go to the .org to bitch about Mattel.

    We can get our news from many sites, but come here because we share and value your opinions and insights. I love the information you bring from your industry contacts.

    I'd like to see your blog return to more variety and discuss those things you mentioned. It has become something of a He-man site of late, and I get why, but talk of other lines would freshen things up a bit.

  17. Yeah, I think fatigue pretty much sums it up.

    Thanks Joe, for your input!

  18. Nice piece. I'm tired of all those things too. And what about DCUC? That line has had even more endemic QC issues.

    People come down on Scott, but like Joe says, he's just telling the truth. The problem is that this stuff keeps happening. So they need to figure out how and where to alter the process to keep it from happening.

  19. Honestly, if you didn't notice it in your review it's NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. Seriously, He-Man fans are some of the most annoying fans out there right now.

    I can see why you'd be frustrated if your favorite line is surrounded in such negativity. That's the last thing I'd want to see though, but I could understand it.

  20. Zach

    Poe, I always appreciate your MOTUC reviews and hope that you continue to do them…

    Slightly off-topic:

    If Mattel's Shadowbeast looked ANYTHING like Joe Amaro's custom, I would have bought one, maybe several:

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